Interview with General Paulo Lukamba "Gato"

General Paulo Lukamba "Gato", head of UNITA's management committee, spoke to IRIN about the country's return to peace, the planned elections, and UNITA's upcoming party congress - critical for the reunification of the movement. He also offered an apology to the Angolan people for the three decades of civil war that has devastated the country. QUESTION: The UN Security Council has now lifted the travel ban on members of your organisation for three months. Is this adequate for what you need to accomplish during a short period of time and are there now concrete timeframes for the congress you have been advocating to elect a new leadership? ANSWER: Firstly, I would like to say that the decision of the Security Council has come at an opportune moment because it allows UNITA to be on an equal footing with its partner in the peace process and with other political parties on the one hand. On the other hand, the Security Council has made justice by lifting sanctions that we’ve always considered unfair and excessive. ... Our party will now be able to reorganise itself following the deep crisis we went through. We will be able to rely on the participation of all party cadres inside and outside of the country. Therefore, the lifting of sanctions are welcome in order to free our party so that it is able to compete on an equal footing with other parties in the electoral programme which has already been announced. The sanctions were suspended for three renewable months, because UNITA does not have any agenda other than its full and definite commitment towards the peace process. Therefore, we don’t see what may cause sanctions to be imposed again. Therefore, those who are abroad will be able to travel from one country to the other, and on this side, we will be able to go abroad. We’ve already received several invitations, namely from Italy, the United States of America, and other European countries. We will now be in a position to fulfill our commitments. Q: Have you set a date yet for a congress in Luanda? A: No, we don't have a timeframe yet. It will arise from prior discussions with the main forces of the party, including the external mission, which only now is in a position to travel and to participate in this great discussion. Q: How would you describe UNITA’s policies and aspirations? What is your political programme going to provide as an alternative to what the [ruling] MPLA has so far given the Angolan people? A: Well, the most important thing at this moment, after this deep crisis that our country experienced since independence in 1975 ... is to propose to Angolans an alternative programme, or project, a new project of society which may bring about a reduction of inequalities, which may provide equal opportunities to all Angolans, because we believe that it is not quite a question of wealth distribution, but basically of bad distribution of opportunities. Therefore, we have precisely an alternative project to propose to Angolans, so that, from a social, economic and even institutional point of view, our country may find the necessary stability. Q: How does UNITA plan on redressing the disparity in the distribution of wealth and opportunities you speak of? How does it plan on redressing state corruption, members of the present government have had scores of allegations of corruption levelled against them. A: Well, we are not going to say it today, we are still in a pre-campaign reflection period, but UNITA has a precise idea, because corruption can only be fought ... first with an equality of opportunities, of access to the means of subsistence for all Angolans, an equality of opportunities of access to the means of production for all citizens. Afterwards, the strict management of public affairs and the creation of verification and control mechanisms, and the accountability of managers. There is no other way of fighting corruption. Equality of opportunities, strictness and discipline of managers, the creation of control and verification mechanisms and accountability before the law. Q: I want to turn to the leadership of UNITA. You’ve said before that you are not particularly interested in leading UNITA beyond its present transformation. There have been indications of divisions in UNITA between the military, representatives abroad, as well here in Luanda. How do you see UNITA resolving these differences? A: Well, UNITA has always been, since its inception, a political organisation, and the military people owe, as a precept, their allegiance to the political leadership. It is a principle. It was like this yesterday and it is like this today, until our demilitarisation, speaking of the process under way. Regarding the party’s unity and reconciliation, we undertake this task, it is our vocation, it is our obligation, it is our duty, not only in order that we may be able to fulfill our commitments within the peace process, but also in order that the party may rise and assume its responsibilities as the biggest opposition party. In a democracy, it is healthy to have tendencies in a political party. The most important thing is that these are differences of approach and should not create divergences. What we don’t need is for these differences to become divergences and antagonisms, this is what we are trying to avoid. And for this not to happen, these days we are looking at the so-called renewal wing [UNITA Renovada] and we are convinced that, in the next few days, UNITA will appear with only one voice, only one leadership, only one goal, although with different internal approaches. Q: Are you saying that you are going to include UNITA Renovada in your plans? A: This is our aim, this is our objective, just to include everybody in this process of internal reconciliation. We are in touch with Mr [Eugenio] Manuvakola [leader of UNITA Renovada, which is represented in parliament] and I’m sure that in the next few days, let us say, before the end of this week, I think that we’ll have the problem solved. It means that UNITA will appear as one united ... party. But we accept different views about the objectives we want to achieve, the most important is that everybody should speak with one voice. All UNITA Renovada. We accept what we call "renovadores" inside our party. Q: Some say UNITA Renovada has very little credibility, particularly in the provinces. Will this not affect UNITA's ability to win support as the election approaches? A: The "renovadores" group is part of UNITA. Decisions were taken at a certain moment of our history, but we now believe that the time of reunification has arrived, irrespective of what they represent because, if we examine the correlation of forces, we will conclude that, of the 70 deputies that UNITA has in parliament, 60 were with us. Of the seven vice-ministers that UNITA has, General Manuvakola has none; of the four ministers that we have in government, two are with us, one is independent and one is with him. The external mission is with us. The armed forces are with us. But we don’t want to play with this correlation of forces to reach reunification. We don’t want to use this, we want to use only the political means, from our goodwill, which shows that we are imbued with the political will to effectively unite UNITA. Regarding UNITA’s future leadership, we believe that only the congress may create a leadership where all cadres may recognise themselves, without any interference by whomever; party cadres will decide, in complete freedom and conscience, who will be the future president of the party ... There is no other way to become president of UNITA, it is necessary to go through the congress. Personally, I’m not a candidate, because my mission is to remove the party from the deep crisis in which [it has been] and to bring it to a platform that can enable it to elect a new leadership. I wouldn’t like it if some individuals thought that I would take this opportunity to [gain] a passport towards my candidature. My mission started with the crisis and ends with the election of the president. Later, we’ll see. Q: How does UNITA plan on funding itself during this presumably expensive process, seeing that its funds are still frozen? A: UNITA has 70 deputies in parliament and this represents a considerable number, a sufficient number to enable us to do our work. It is obvious that, for the electoral campaign, the state general budget will have to finance campaigning. It is not enough, it cannot be compared to the budget of the ruling party, but I’m still convinced that the most important thing is not the means, the most important thing is to propose an alternative programme to the Angolan people. Q: Do you think that the election being planned can be free and fair, taking logistics, access and party funding into account? A: Yes. The field is open with the end of the military component in the process, there will be free circulation of people and goods ... and we believe that all the parties will have the freedom to campaign wherever they wish, irrespective of the areas that were once controlled by UNITA or by government. The most important thing is that elections be free and fair, which implies a certain number of presumptions, namely regarding the freedom that parties have to move around the whole of the national territory in accordance with their programme ... We have agreed from the beginning that elections take place in the second half of 2004. I would like certain political, psychological and material conditions to be created, so that the elections are effectively free and fair. We will get to that. Q: I want to turn to the quartering process. Where is it now and what still has to happen? A: It is envisaged that this process will last 265/266 days and, at the beginning, the country was not prepared to bear the burden of this large quartering operation. Above all, because at the beginning one would speak in propaganda terms, of "residual" forces, which would imply perhaps 5,000 or 3,000 men. But the reality is different and one needs now to assume responsibilities and face the problem such as it stands. We are convinced that the government now accepts reality, the propaganda is past and now one needs to accept actual numbers and forces on the ground. Now the government has set up mechanisms to accept this. We are convinced that, in the next few days, this food crisis in the quartering areas will be resolved. [The humanitarian situation in the soldier and family quartering areas is dire, with high levels of malnutrition and daily deaths reported]. Q: The UN role in the quartering and political process so far has been as observer, a role it shares with the troika of Russia, Portugal and the United States. What role would you like the UN to play in the process, right up to the expected election? A: The United Nations has to play a fundamental role, not only during this process of demilitarisation of UNITA; they must play a political role of peace and national reconciliation, and in the electoral process. It’s true that the United Nations should have played a greater role at the beginning of this process. We, UNITA, invited the United Nations to play a bigger role. Many months ago, the President of the Republic requested the United Nations to assume their role as intermediary. The United Nations hesitated. They did not do enough to contact the parties. Hence the difficulties that the United Nations now have to get into the process. They had the opportunity to play a fundamental role. As I said, the President of the Republic requested this of the United Nations, Dr. Savimbi requested this of the United Nations, but the United Nations, at the precise moment when they should have undertaken (this task), didn’t. Now, those difficulties are but a consequence of the initial approach. But for us, UNITA, we want the United Nations to immediately assume their role, with the appearance of the Joint Commission, the conclusion of the application of this whole peace process and also for them to play a role in the political agenda, which relates to reconciliation and the electoral process. Q: What role would that be? A: The role of the United Nations should be quite above the role of observers. The United Nations should play the role of mediator and arbitrator. Q: There has been much suffering in this long war, on all sides ... Would UNITA apologise to the people of Angola for the suffering that has occurred. And if you say yes, would you do it now? Do you think the people of Angola deserve an apology from all those involved in maintaining this war? A: Well, you know that the history of mankind is but the history of wars. This is what makes the history of mankind. Today, in its political and geographic configuration, the world is the result of wars. There were reasons also for this war in Angola. We believe that we can remove the causes of this war by peaceful means, through dialogue and debate. Somebody asked me: What was the use of this war that lasted so many years? My answer was: It was of use, even it is for Angolans today to say we’ll never have war again, due to the experience that we’ve gone through, after approximately 40 years of war, this war had the value to lead people to say "from now on there will never be war". War is made ... one needs at least two parties to make war, and at the end of the war, it is necessary for leaders to humbly and courageously assume their responsibility in redressing any wrongs, hurts, scars, both physically and morally. And leaders must assume this position, because the people, our people, deserve more than amends for moral and material damage. They need their leaders to humbly and courageously apologise. Q: Would you do that now, in this interview? A: This has its appropriate time, but we register at once not only the will, but also the conscience, the need for Angolan leaders to apologise. I’m only the coordinator of the Management Commission, which is the Leadership organ of UNITA, but in my capacity I have no problem in asking Angolans to forgive their leaders, within the spirit of the amnesty law proclaimed by government and approved by parliament. But, irrespective of that, I repeat, I, in my capacity as coordinator of the Management Commission of UNITA, do not have any problem, and I’m sufficiently humble and have intellectual courage, to tell Angolans: Forgive us. Q: Very quickly, the steps that UNITA now takes practically. You start travelling, people start returning to Angola, UNITA holds a congress. Where does UNITA go from here? A: Well, from now on we will be able to extend the internal debate, so as to be able to get to congress in a less scattered manner. After the congress, there will be a legitimate, legal leadership which will be able to take the party to occupy its political space. Objective: to propose to Angolans a new programme and a new project, so that we can either win the elections or, at least, improve the correlation of forces in parliament. This is our great objective for the next two years. Q: UNITA has insisted that it chose to end the war, but there are those who say that UNITA lost this war ... that there’s no way that the soldiers, in the conditions that they were in, could continue fighting, and that this led to UNITA’s decision to accept a ceasefire. What would you say to that? A: Well, for me that is not important, who won, who lost. For me, what is important is that the Angolan people have won. Sixty thousand men have been set up in quarters. Is this a defeat? Perhaps not. We made a choice. The Angolans have won. Those who want to think that UNITA lost the war are free to think so. It’s not important.